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College of Business Administration Voice: (409) 294-1266
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From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Sun Jul 26 22:45:30 1992
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Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:40:15 +22313801 (EDT
From: Joey Gibson <aix3!wjg@netcom.com>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Epsilon Web file?
To: LitProg Mail-List <netcomsv!LITPROG@SHSU.edu>
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Is there a customization file for Epsilon (Emacs clone for the PC) similar
to the CWeb.el file? If so, any info appreciated.
Joey Gibson
===> Please address all E-mail to <wjg@aix3.ema.com>
===> The views expressed here are not necessarily those of EMA.
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Sun Jul 26 22:53:49 1992
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Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:37:38 +22313801 (EDT
From: Joey Gibson <aix3!wjg@netcom.com>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Web for Macintosh
To: LitProg Mail-List <netcomsv!LITPROG@SHSU.edu>
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Someone may have already asked this, but I don't remember. Is there a Web
for the Macintosh (68000 chip)? I have just gotten the pre-compiled FWeb
for the PC, and I really like it. Is there a pre-compiled Mac version? If
anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
Joey Gibson
===> Please address all E-mail to <wjg@aix3.ema.com>
===> The views expressed here are not necessarily those of EMA.
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Mon Jul 27 08:02:12 1992
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From: Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Re: Web for Macintosh
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
In-Reply-To: Joey Gibson's message of Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:37:38 +22313801 (EDT
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:29:56 BST
Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie
Message-Id: <9207271329.aa14495@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>
> Someone may have already asked this, but I don't remember. Is there a Web
> for the Macintosh (68000 chip)? I have just gotten the pre-compiled FWeb
> for the PC, and I really like it. Is there a pre-compiled Mac version? If
> anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
There are pre-compiled Mac versions of ctangle and cweave --
I take it that is what is meant here by Web? --
available from ftp.maths.tcd.ie in pub/TeX/CWEB/16-bit
(ctangle.hqx and cweave.hqx).
The (very small) change files used to create these are also there.
Change files for the standard web2c distribution (from Karl Berry)
are also available in pub/TeX/src-5.851c/16-bit .
The port is described in MacTeX.tex in that directory.
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366 (home/office)
+353-1-7021507 (university)
fax: +353-1-2842295
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Mon Jul 27 13:35:02 1992
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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:23:35 CDT
From: "George D. Greenwade" <bed_gdg@SHSU.edu>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Message-Id: <0095E32F.D83F8FA0.10549@SHSU.edu>
Subject: Re: Web for Macintosh
Had a little break from a few meetings, and.....
On Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:29:56 BST, Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie> posted:
> There are pre-compiled Mac versions of ctangle and cweave --
> I take it that is what is meant here by Web? --
> available from ftp.maths.tcd.ie in pub/TeX/CWEB/16-bit
> (ctangle.hqx and cweave.hqx).
> The (very small) change files used to create these are also there.
The files are available from FILESERV and Niord. Attached is the
description file.
Time to return to meetings, George
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
George D. Greenwade, Ph.D. Bitnet: BED_GDG@SHSU
Department of Economics and Business Analysis THEnet: SHSU::BED_GDG
College of Business Administration Voice: (409) 294-1266
P. O. Box 2118 FAX: (409) 294-3612
Sam Houston State University Internet: bed_gdg@SHSU.edu
Huntsville, TX 77341 bed_gdg%SHSU.decnet@relay.the.net
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
CWEB-16BIT
----------
The CWEB-16BIT package includes version 1.0 (12 July 1992) of Timothy
Murphy's <tim@maths.tcd.ie> change files for THINK C and BinHex'ed
executables for CWEB on the Macintosh. If you want to re-compile ctangle
and/or cweave, you will need the actual *.w CWEB files -- common.w and
ctangle.w for ctangle, common.w, prod.w and cweave.w for cweave (these are
included in the CWEB distribution on FILESERV and Niord).
To retrieve the set of 9 files distributed in 11 parts, include:
SENDME CWEB-16BIT
in the body of a mail message to FILESERV@SHSU.BITNET (FILESERV@SHSU.edu).
To retrieve a specific file, such as SENDME CWEB-16BIT.WC_CH, include:
SENDME SENDME CWEB-16BIT.WC_CH
in your mail request to FILESERV. The individual files, along with a
compressed tar archive and a ZIP archive, are available for anonymous ftp
retrieval from Niord.SHSU.edu (192.92.115.8) in the [FILESERV.CWEB-16BIT]
directory.
Files in this package: (1 Block = 512 bytes)
File Blocks Save file as:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CWEB-16BIT.COMMON_CH 6 common.ch
CWEB-16BIT.CTANGLE_CH 7 ctangle.ch
CWEB-16BIT.CTANGLE_HQX_1OF2 77 ctangle.hqx (part 1 of 2)
CWEB-16BIT.CTANGLE_HQX_2OF2 7 (part 2 of 2)
CWEB-16BIT.CWEAVE_CH 11 cweave.ch
CWEB-16BIT.CWEAVE_HQX_1OF2 77 cweave.hqx (part 1 of 2)
CWEB-16BIT.CWEAVE_HQX_2OF2 38 (part 2 of 2)
CWEB-16BIT.README_TCD 2 README.TCD
CWEB-16BIT.TREEPRINT_CH 3 treeprint.ch
CWEB-16BIT.WC_CH 3 wc.ch
CWEB-16BIT.WMERGE_CH 3 wmerge.ch
Approximate total blocks in full CWEB-16BIT package = 234
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Tue Jul 28 22:57:56 1992
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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:53:39 +22313801 (EDT
From: Joey Gibson <aix3!wjg@netcom.com>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: CWeb on the Mac: Problems?
To: LitProg Mail-List <netcomsv!LITPROG@SHSU.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.02.9207282339.A27724-a100000@aix3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Is anyone using the CWeave and CTangle which have been ported to the Mac?
I got them today, but when I run them and enter a Web file to process, all
I ever get in return is (That was a fatal error, my friend). I thought it
was because of the path I specified, so I tried several variations of the
path, and finally moved the file into the same directory as CWeave, but I
still get this error. Any ideas?
Joey Gibson
===> Please address all E-mail to <wjg@aix3.ema.com>
===> The views expressed here are not necessarily those of EMA.
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Tue Jul 28 23:59:31 1992
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Subject: smtp mail failed
Your mail to minster.york.ac.uk!dan is undeliverable.
---------- diagnosis ----------
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---------- unsent mail ----------
>From SHSU.edu!LITPROG Tue Jul 28 23:53:39 +22313801 1992 remote from inet
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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:53:39 +22313801 (EDT
From: Joey Gibson <aix3!wjg@netcom.com>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: CWeb on the Mac: Problems?
To: LitProg Mail-List <netcomsv!LITPROG@SHSU.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.02.9207282339.A27724-a100000@aix3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Is anyone using the CWeave and CTangle which have been ported to the Mac?
I got them today, but when I run them and enter a Web file to process, all
I ever get in return is (That was a fatal error, my friend). I thought it
was because of the path I specified, so I tried several variations of the
path, and finally moved the file into the same directory as CWeave, but I
still get this error. Any ideas?
Joey Gibson
===> Please address all E-mail to <wjg@aix3.ema.com>
===> The views expressed here are not necessarily those of EMA.
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Wed Jul 29 00:53:17 1992
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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:51:09 -0500
From: Cameron Smith <cameron@symcom.math.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Message-Id: <199207290551.AA00485@mira.math.uiuc.edu>
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Re: CWeb on the Mac: Problems?
Cc: wjg@aix3.ema.com
> Is anyone using the CWeave and CTangle which have been ported to the Mac?
> I got them today, but when I run them and enter a Web file to process, all
> I ever get in return is (That was a fatal error, my friend). I thought it
> was because of the path I specified, so I tried several variations of the
> path, and finally moved the file into the same directory as CWeave, but I
> still get this error. Any ideas?
> Joey Gibson
I tried them and had this experience. As far as I can tell, the
programs expect to be given a change file and bomb if none is specified.
I made an empty file named "null.ch" and I always give that as the
change file when I want to process a web file without changes.
Kludgy, but it works.
--Cameron Smith
cameron@symcom.math.uiuc.edu
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Wed Jul 29 07:55:19 1992
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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:57:48 CDT
From: "George D. Greenwade" <bed_gdg@SHSU.edu>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Message-Id: <0095E49D.0BBCAAC0.16324@SHSU.edu>
Subject: RE: smtp mail failed
The moral of this story is never go home or logout if you own a list, I
guess. I have notified the postmaster at the site which is merrily
bouncing mail back to the list that it has a configuration problem. Under
the various SMTP-related RFCs, the LAST address a mailer daemon should
return bounces to is the Reply-To: field, which this site was doing. The
proper specification of bouncing is:
Return-Path: *+
Errors-To: *+
From:
Sender: *
Reply-To: *+
To:
(those marked by * are optional fields, those marked by + are generated by
our mailer, those without marks are required and created). The
Return-Path: and Errors-To: field both point to an alias,
<LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu>, which comes to me -- I routinely handle quite a few
bounces each day from among my 11 lists; I should have been the only one to
have seen these.
The list address, <LITPROG@SHSU>, is included and first seen in Reply-To:,
the site has a problem. Nevertheless, I apologize for the junk mail you
have received -- I am quite aware that it is a terrible waste of bandwidth,
as well as rather annoying.
Regards, George
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
George D. Greenwade, Ph.D. Bitnet: BED_GDG@SHSU
Department of Economics and Business Analysis THEnet: SHSU::BED_GDG
College of Business Administration Voice: (409) 294-1266
P. O. Box 2118 FAX: (409) 294-3612
Sam Houston State University Internet: bed_gdg@SHSU.edu
Huntsville, TX 77341 bed_gdg%SHSU.decnet@relay.the.net
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Wed Jul 29 10:25:38 1992
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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:52:59 MEZ
From: Hans-Hermann Bode <HHBODE%DOSUNI1.BITNET@SHSU.edu>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Re: CWeb on the Mac: Problems?
To: litprog@SHSU.edu
Cameron Smith wrote:
>I tried them and had this experience. As far as I can tell, the
>programs expect to be given a change file and bomb if none is specified.
>I made an empty file named "null.ch" and I always give that as the
>change file when I want to process a web file without changes.
>Kludgy, but it works.
I happen to know approximately nothing about Macs, but it seems to me that
the following statement in common.w has to be changed appropriately:
if (!found_change) strcpy(change_file_name,"/dev/null");
(This is line 1007 in Version 2.4.)
Hans-Hermann Bode
Arbeitsgruppe Systemforschung, Universit\"at Osnabr\"uck
Tel.: (49)-541-9692545
e-mail: HHBODE@DOSUNI1.BITNET
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From: Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Re: CWeb on the Mac: Problems?
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
In-Reply-To: Cameron Smith's message of Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:51:09 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 17:24:52 BST
Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie
Message-Id: <9207291724.aa12087@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>
> I tried them and had this experience. As far as I can tell, the
> programs expect to be given a change file and bomb if none is specified.
> I made an empty file named "null.ch" and I always give that as the
> change file when I want to process a web file without changes.
> Kludgy, but it works.
Sorry, I guess this is my fault ...
The 'standard' version 'reads' from /dev/null if no change file is given.
Unfortunately the Mac doesn't have such an animal,
so expects a change file to be given.
This should have been stated more explicitly.
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366 (home/office)
+353-1-7021507 (university)
fax: +353-1-2842295
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
From LP-Mgr@SHSU.edu Wed Jul 29 13:13:44 1992
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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:38:08 +22313801 (EDT
From: Joey Gibson <aix3!wjg@netcom.com>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: No double sidedness?
To: LitProg Mail-List <netcomsv!LITPROG@SHSU.edu>
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Is there any way in FWeb or CWeb to turn of double sided pagination? IOW, I have
no plans to print out my .dvi files double-sided, so can I turn this off, so
that all page numbers are in the upper right hand corner and all section numbers
are in the upper left hand corner?
Joey Gibson
===> Please address all E-mail to <wjg@aix3.ema.com>
===> The views expressed here are not necessarily those of EMA.
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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:01:03 -0500
From: "Donald N. Petcher" <petcher@arthur.wustl.edu>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Message-Id: <199207292301.AA04803@arthur.wustl.edu>
To: litprog@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: No double sidedness?
>
> Is there any way in FWeb or CWeb to turn of double sided pagination? IOW, I have
> no plans to print out my .dvi files double-sided, so can I turn this off, so
> that all page numbers are in the upper right hand corner and all section numbers
> are in the upper left hand corner?
>
>
> Joey Gibson
>
> ===> Please address all E-mail to <wjg@aix3.ema.com>
> ===> The views expressed here are not necessarily those of EMA.
In fweb, the command \identicalpageheadstrue (put in TeX part at
beginning of document) makes all page headers identical, but it puts the
page numbers in the upper LEFT corner and the section numbers in the
upper RIGHT corner. To do it the other way around you can either change
the macro normaloutput in fwebmac.sty as indicated:
\def\normaloutput#1#2#3{\shipout\vbox{
\ifodd\pageno\hoffset=\pageshift\fi
\vbox to\fullpageheight
{
\iftitle\global\titlefalse
\else\hbox to\pagewidth
{\vbox to10pt{}%
\ifidenticalpageheads#3\else % THIS WAS ORIGINALLY #2 <---------
\ifodd\pageno
#3% Makes page numbers alternate left \& right.
\else#2\fi
\fi
}%
\fi
\vfill#1
}}% Parameter |#1| is the page itself
\global\advance\pageno by1}
or you can include the above version in your TeX file as a redefinition
of the macro. This is from version 1.22. If you have version 1.23 make
sure it hasn't changed. I don't know if there is an 'official' way of
doing this.
Cheers,
Don Petcher petcher@wuphys.wustl.edu
Department of Physics
Washington University
Saint Louis, Missouri
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:01:55 -0500
From: Cameron Smith <cameron@symcom.math.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Message-Id: <199207312301.AA11940@spica.math.uiuc.edu>
To: litprog@shsu.edu
Subject: Sorry!
Sorry about that; I was *sure* I typed "listserv" but just after
I sent the preceding I realized that I had sent it to the list
instead. Curse me for a novice!
BTW, is the sudden silence on this group just a result of the
TUG meeting being held now, or was the storm of interest in
literate programming merely a tempest in a teapot?
I am new to CWEB and to literate programming generally, and
I would be *very* interested to hear from people who've used
literate methods to develop substantial software, especially
if several people were cooperating on a project. Did LP
make your programs better, easier to write, easier to debug,
easier to maintain, and/or more efficient? Did it introduce
any problems that you wouldn't have had if you had used
traditional methods? A full-blown case study isn't necessary;
anecdotes would be of interest.
Equally of interest would be stories from people who tried LP
and didn't like it (although maybe such people aren't on this
list!). Anybody who tried WEB or CWEB or c-no-web or some such
and then abandoned it, would you care to say why?
Anyone want to vouchsafe a few paragraphs for the enlightenment
of others?
--Cameron Smith
cameron@symcom.math.uiuc.edu
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Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 01:31:25 +0200
From: Marcus Speh <marcus@ips102.desy.de>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: Sorry!
In-Reply-To: <199207312301.AA11940@spica.math.uiuc.edu>
References: <199207312301.AA11940@spica.math.uiuc.edu>
>>>>> On Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:01:55 -0500, Cameron Smith said:
Cam'l> Sorry about that; I was *sure* I typed "listserv" but just after
Cam'l> I sent the preceding I realized that I had sent it to the list
Cam'l> instead. Curse me for a novice!
I'm not sure whether it is an old and outworn trick or not...for me
it's a new way of getting *all* the attraction...(sorry the "Cam'l":
I will write a subsequent message to excuse it as a typing error 8-))
--Marcus Speh [another novice] INTERnet <marcus@ips102.desy.de>
P.S. BTW, what is the result of REVIEW LITPROG, Cameron...
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Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 03:09:53 +0200
From: Marcus Speh <marcus@ips102.desy.de>
Reply-To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
To: LITPROG@SHSU.edu
Subject: LitProg: A "Tempest in a Teapot"?
In-Reply-To: <199207312301.AA11940@spica.math.uiuc.edu>
References: <199207312301.AA11940@spica.math.uiuc.edu>
Cameron, you said first:
Cameron> BTW, is the sudden silence on this group just a result of the
Cameron> TUG meeting being held now, or was the storm of interest in
Cameron> literate programming merely a tempest in a teapot?
I guess it hard in general to keep both novices and veterans together
on the same mailing list. For some reason, my "anecdotes" take the
form of propositions [that is so because in my recent work, it is
hard to be really exact...]:
PROPOSITION-1: In Literate Programming, novices either
drop out before they have really started,
or they become veterans quickly.
PROPOSITION-2: Veteran Literate Programmers are a special brand:
used to be made fun of, not appreciated as the perfectionists
who many of them are, they learnt to live alone
and without a mailing list for years.
Now, it is hard for them to learn to live as friends...
PROPOSITION-3: Programmers come in two different brands:
Literate Programmers and Non-Literate Programmers
[some mouth flamed the latter as "illiterates"
earlier on this list - but to justify the propositional,
and therefore 'neutral' character of this note,
let's be nice]. Many do not know, to which side they belong
- the bright or the dark one.
PROPOSITION-4: Many programming people do not know that they
actually perform Literal Programming. Definitely you can be a
Literal Programmer without knowing of applying any of the
kinds of WEB...life just may become harder for you.
PROPOSITION-5: Non-Literal Programmers cannot be easily
convinced that they might gain something changing side.
LitProgs are often considered perfectionists,
and for them Literal Programming is L'art-pour-L'art,
luxury, in other words.
PROPOSITION-6: Literal Programming *is* a luxury. But writing
programs in an 'i-just-let-it-grow'-style is a luxury,
too. Anything which stimulates me, wakes up my intellectual
curiosity, is a luxury - but a necessary one.
I'll rather drop the line now...I am definitely to be put into
the "novice" slot of literal programming - but I have thought
about it a bit - probably too much compared to the work
which has come out of it yet - and probably too little to
satisfy *your* needs, Big Brother.
Later you said,
Cameron> I'm interested to hear whether this literate
Cameron> programming really is a useful tool or just something for
Cameron> academics [...] who have the luxury of taking all the
Cameron> time they want on any project they want to play around with.
It is a useful tool for me. It definitely increased my level of
reflection upon what I was doing. It saves me time because the
programs mostly *do* run in the first place - it costs me
time because I now like to treat many otherwise neglectable
pieces of code like little diamonds - and cannot be sure that
this will pay beyond the fun.
It definitely costs time because I am trying
to convince my colleagues that they should try *WEB, too. But
I am a born missionary anyway and so this meets my needs as well.
I find it important to note though, that nobody would
carry out "research" knowing in advance what will be
useful...I even made the experience that scientific
creativity [sorry for using otherwise obscenely maltreated
words in this context] directly depended on me doing
the useless. But this is not a mailing list for Hegelian
dialectics, I understand. I am just trying to say that
the fast way is not always the best.
Being a semi-novice, that is the situation I am in [sort of] -
and NOW: rise, you veterans!
--Marcus Speh INTERnet <marcus@ips102.desy.de>